Secrets in the City with Dr Katherine

I can't seem to let go of my ex.

February 01, 2021 Dr Katherine Iscoe Episode 2
Secrets in the City with Dr Katherine
I can't seem to let go of my ex.
Show Notes Transcript

In this podcast, Nadine and I unpack the anonymous secret: I can’t seem to let go of my ex. We reflect on how we’re shaped or influenced by our past relationships, and we ask pretty deep questions that lead us to unpack some bombshell raw truths. Nadine reveals her secret of being consumed by a past relationship to the point where her self-identity and values changed.

I don’t know about you - but this is a topic that really hits home for me in so many ways. And not only how past romantic relationships can continue to impact your life, but also how past and even present relationships in your career can impact your working life. Because if you think about it, after our loving relationships - the people we spend the most time with are the people we work with.

So to my beautiful listeners, if you’ve ever been in a relationship that continues to haunt you - I implore you to listen to this episode, not only to hear more about Nadine’s story, but more importantly, so you can learn how to be grateful for failed relationships, enabling you move past them, freeing you to live in and enjoy the present.

Nadine Amesz:

Hello, everybody. Welcome to the Secrets in the City podcast where we turn shameful secrets into life changing lessons so people like you and me can cut the weight of the past and move forward with remarkable competence. My name is Dr. Katherine Iscoe. And I'll be your proud host for this new podcast series. Welcome.

Dr Katherine Iscoe:

Hello, and welcome to the second episode of Secrets in the City, where we turn shameful secrets into remarkable life lessons. Now, my name is Dr. Katherine Iscoe - hello! And I'm so darn excited to be your host for this new podcast series. Now, Folks, before I introduce today's guest, I want to ask you a question. Are you sitting down? Do you think opposites attract? because let me tell you, I think they did. And I'll tell you why. In Episode One, you would have heard from my life partner Vlado. Did you guys listen to that episode, because it was awesome. Now he is literally the Yin to my Yang. He's Croatian. I'm Canadian. And I mean that both literally and metaphorically. because let me tell you, he wants to buy the world. I want to save it. He says if you I say sorry. And you probably would have heard me say sorry, about 1000 times. Now, clearly, this is a pattern of mine because today, I'm interviewing my bestie of 10 years. Nadine, Nadine Amesz, who is another Yin to my Yang. Now, let me give you a couple examples here just to set the scene. This is a woman that

springs out of bed at 4:

30am not Pm 8am in the morning, and let me tell you, if you've ever seen me in the morning, I can barely

form a sentence at 9:

30am no one talks to me before I get my coffee. Now, if you've ever seen Nadine, she's like five foot 10. And let me tell you when I'm really stretched out on five foot on my good days. Now Nadine adores routine. Like we're talking you can set your clock by her. And the moment I start going into routine, I become paralysed by it. I hate it. And if we ever go out to events, and let me just tell you, Nadine is usually in bed by eight o'clock. So on the rare occasion that we go to events together. She's wearing like a sports watch in comfy boots, and I'm the shorty wearing my Carier and Christian Louboutin like, we're talking totally different in regards to fashion sense. But here's the thing, you know, despite all of these differences, which if you really look at them are really minor. We are alike in so many ways that are truly important. One of these being that we both love overcoming challenges. So that's really the summary of today's podcast, Nadine and I unpack the anonymous secret, I can't seem to let go of my x, we reflect on how you know we've been shaped or influenced by past relationships. And here's where the juicy stuff is. We asked some pretty deep questions that lead us to unpack some, let me just tell you, spoiler alert some bombshell raw truth. In this, Nadine is going to reveal her secret of being consumed by a past relationship to the point where herself identity and values changed. Can you relate? Hell's to the Yes, I don't know about you. But this is a topic that really hits home for me in so many ways. And let me tell you not only how past romantic relationships can continue to impact your life, but think about this. Also how past and even present relationships in your career can impact your working life. Because if you think about it after our loving relationships, the people that we spend the most time with are the people that we work with. So to my beautiful listeners, if you've ever been in a relationship that continues to haunt you, I implore you to listen to this episode, not only to hear more about Nadine story, but more importantly, so you can learn how to be grateful for failed relationships, enabling you to move past them, freeing you to live in and enjoy the present. We're jumping right into it. And you have already picked a secret from the 1000s of secrets. Which one is it reached out to us?

Nadine Amesz:

I can't seem to let go of my ex.

Dr Katherine Iscoe:

So why'd you pick that one? By the way? You can push the microphone down because

Nadine Amesz:

I want to see you

Dr Katherine Iscoe:

I can't seem to let go of my ex. Why Why did that one jump out at you?

Nadine Amesz:

I think because I had a relationship last year, that was pretty good. But I think after we broke up, I thought it would be possibly easier to walk away and I've experienced over the last 10 week. So what do you think this person wrote that secret? I think they're probably still stuck in the what ifs could have would have should have. And probably had a reflection on on the relationship and and maybe just a self check on what could have been done differently, and wouldn't have been a different outcome. Do you think we do that a lot in life that we are constantly looking in the back and saying, What if I should have done this? I shouldn't have done that. Do you think a lot of us as in generally, do we live in the past and wish a lot? I do think so. But I think it's also people that are reflective, I think it's people that are self aware and want to continue to grow and learn from things that are possibly like that. Or they're stuck in that mode of what if or instead of wanting to actually do something to change to be better? They're stuck in that what if cycle or this they're stuck in that I wish cycle without actually making any particular solid effort to change? I guess moving forward.

Dr Katherine Iscoe:

So when it comes to that's, that's an interesting point. So would you say the differentiating factor would be, you can look at the past. But if you don't change your behaviours in the future, that's what differentiates a person that's stuck in the past versus using it for the future.

Nadine Amesz:

Correct.

Dr Katherine Iscoe:

Do you think it's behaviours?

Nadine Amesz:

Definitely, and I think it's learning and I think it's growing. And I think it's being honest with yourself to say, what could I have done better? or What should I have done? Or could it Yeah, could I have done better to perhaps get a different outcome? So when it comes to relationships, and I'm sure you can associate with this? Why do we keep on doing the same thing over and over? Yet, expect a different result? I know that that was me for about 15 years of my life. Well, hold on. I didn't start dating at six. You do you do this lot? And if you want to take me back, perhaps maybe even 10 years, because we've known each other? Yes, since 2011. Yeah. 10 years, next month, in fact, so. Annivesary. So take me back 10 years into your mindset when it comes to relationships? Oh, 10 years, okay. Well, I'd come out of a tumultuous and emotionally abusive relationship with someone who was a undiagnosed bipolar, and manic depressive, who had massive highs and massive lows. Sorry did he know that at the time? They're undiagnosed. No

Dr Katherine Iscoe:

Okay, so this is retrospectively

Nadine Amesz:

Well, I knew it, I knew it probably 12 months into the relationship. Okay But we were together for three over three years. But there was highs and lows and everything in between we had. And I think what attracted me, to me was the compassionate side of him. He was very compassionate. And he was a personal trainer, and I was a personal trainer. So we had a lot of similarities in terms of when he was on it was health, fitness discipline structure. When he was off, it was mind blowingly, side wiped. Like, how can you give us an example? Yes. So at one point, I wanted to live with him and he moved in. And about three weeks into the relationship, he locked himself in a bedroom and started talking about voices in his head, and wanting to put a bullet into his head. And he would physically try to drag his fingers through his skull to pull these voices and pull these things out of his head. And he basically didn't leave that room, that bedroom in the dark for about eight days. I was lucky enough to be living 300 metres from my house. And so I would go to work. And I would check in a morning tea, I would go home at lunch, I'll come back, you know, obviously after work, and it was incredibly emotionally draining for me. But then a snap, and all of a sudden, he'd come out of it and he would be on this manic high and life would be frickin amazing. And it would just leave me in this emotional puddle. And when would you get sucked back into the relationship? Absolutely.

Dr Katherine Iscoe:

By these highs?

Nadine Amesz:

Absolutely. So you were basically living high to high? Yes.

Dr Katherine Iscoe:

It was like almost like a drug addict.

Nadine Amesz:

Absolutely. It was it was living from moment to moment and the potential in the relationship

Dr Katherine Iscoe:

Potential! That's a big one for you. You are a potential seeker!

Nadine Amesz:

I am and so i and i think i could see the potential for us in a fantastic relationship when he was on that self discipline path and you know, the health and the fitness and everything like that, and I would live from moment to moment with him in throughout that three years. But in the end, I think I needed to step back and go, this is so not healthy for me. It taught me a truckload. But it wasn't healthy for me. So in 2011 is when I met you. Yeah, that was when the relationship ended. And were you able to let go of him? Yes, at that point, I was because it had been so incredibly impactful on my life, I guess. I was able to turn around and walk away because there was some really awful dark moments in that relationship. Are you able to share a couple of them? Goodness gracious me. Yes. I remember he was quite vindictive. He Yeah. He was. And I don't, I don't like to speak ill of someone at all. But this particular person also relied on me financially from time to time, and I actually lost quite a large amount of money to him, paying his bills, pulling them out of debt, those sorts of things. But I think the biggest thing for me was the emotional trauma. I'd never been in a relationship that had arguments. And so our first argument, I thought the relationship was over. And then three days we made up and I was like, I don't know what just happened here. So we had massive arguments. And then that was just part of our cycle, because that was his, his way of living, I guess. Yeah. Lots of arguments, ups and downs and jealousy, a lot of jealousy. Jealousy is big. Do you think I mean, obviously, Vlado and the first podcast with Vlado we spoke a lot about this, this personality aspect of being jealous. And what Vlado was saying is oftentimes you're jealous, because you're doing the bad things in the first place. And not necessarily saying this is true. And that was his view of jealousy. He's jealous, because he's trying to protect his own behaviours. Why do you think in this case, your partner was jealous? Well, I think as a personal trainer, and you're living and breathing, the fitness industry, obviously, there's a lot of vanity, I think that comes with that, either consciously or subconsciously, personal trainers, in my opinion, should walk the walk, talk the talk. And so you should basically live this health and fitness lifestyle, and you should be able to back that up with how you look and how you behave. Look, you're a walking billboard. Totally. And that's how you build your business. Yeah. And so I think there was a lot of insecurities around the male attention that a female personal trainer gets. And you have to be nice to everyone. If you're selling your business, you're selling yourself, basically to get clients. And if a male comes to you and says, I like the way you train, I want to look fit, strong, healthy, and you're getting male attention. I think that causes some insecurities. Perhaps with your partner at the time, because they're seeing all of his attraction, all this attention, I guess, coming on to you. Yeah. But it was vice versa. You know, he was an excellent personal trainer, he had results for women out the wazoo, like he knew his stuff. And so there was vice versa, but I think I was not a jealous person. And so there was no reciprocation in that. And I just went about my business. And he found that quite hard to, to see sometimes, I guess. Interesting. So what do you think? I guess one mask is, you know, you were self secure in, in that instance, as in you weren't jealous. But at the same time, it was like this tumultuous relationship that would have made you so volatile to be jealous. So how'd you? I don't know, like, how do you come up with such a strong mindset? Like I know your mom, your mom has, like a superwoman kind of mindset. Have you heard the story? So do you think part of it is that like just what you raised? Or? Absolutely, I think I'm absolutely blessed to have had such an amazing family life and I still do and my upbringing, one of the things that I will always remember both mom and dad saying to me is the world is your oyster. You can do and be anything you want. You know, you have to put in the time you have to work for it, but you can do anything you want. And, and I think the other message that they've always drummed into me is what's the worst that can happen? You move over to Melbourne, you move overseas, you try a new job, you what is the worst thing that can happen, you move home or you start again. And I think that's where my resilience or my strong mindset has come from because my whole life I've basically heard what's the worst that can go wrong. And if you started that worst case scenario, and you work backwards, it I won't say it never happens, but it rarely happens. Because if you actually challenge yourself to do something that's going to help you grow if you're that kind of a person, you will make it work that make it work. So why is it let's let's go back to the secret I can't let go my ex so why is it do you think if we could generalise for a second, why is it that some people again, are stuck in that past? And they don't learn from it to move forward? I think there's an element of comfort. And then there's an element of being comfortable in that cycle.

Dr Katherine Iscoe:

So you're... would you say you're almost addicted to the drama or addicted to that feeling of discomfort or, like, talk me through it?

Nadine Amesz:

Well, I know for me, and I've learned this probably over over my last 10 years of relationships, I'm a fixer. I attract people that need positive energy that need maybe a path or a guide or someone to motivate them. I attract those kinds of people, male and female, friends, boyfriends. So and I think, I think I'm probably I'm, I'm, I'm just one of those people that just want to bring people along with me for the ride. Like, I really want people to get the best out of themselves. And if I put that back into my relationship from 10 years ago, I wanted him to be the best person he could be. And, and I loved him. And so I wanted to dedicate that I wanted, you know, what better way to show someone that you love them than to help them improve or be their best version. But I think people that might get stuck in that cycle of not being able to change or grow or learn or develop from an experience, I think there must be there has to be a comfort element, because it's either a mentality of I don't have the strength or I don't know how or it's, it's being scared of going out of their comfort zone. I know what I know. Yeah. And and what you don't know you don't know. Yeah, how will you ever learn if you don't challenge yourself to learn or feel or do something different? Is there an element of guilt when you can't help or fix someone? Absolutely. I hate failing. I hate failure. Because I find that with my clients as well, sometimes, because I know the solution. Yeah. You know, when I do a consultation with someone, I know exactly what they need to do. But I can't tell them that because if I tell them that they're going to resist it, yes, it's you can lead a horse to water, you can't make a drink. And I find it so frustrating, because, as I always say, everyone's got a god complex. Everyone wants to be that Saviour in someone else's life to say, I will fix you. -Yes- And when you can't, or when you're prevented from doing that, it f***ing p*sses me off. But it's a learning for you. Right? It is to learn to step back -patience- and take take a breath. It's funny, you talked about that with your clients in your consults. I have that same thing with personal training clients. Yeah. Like someone says to me, you know, I want your arms or how do I get legs like yours or whatever it might be? Yeah. Well, I work frickin hard. Yeah, I ate really well. I sleep as much as I can. Yeah, you know, I'm in bed at eight quarter past eight. Yeah, I get up at four. But I make sure I get that downtime, rest recovery. I eat well, I hydrate you know, but I train like a maniac. Yeah. And I know that you make it your priority. It is my priority. So when people say I want this, that or the other? Sure I can get you that. But you need to commit to it. And how high is it on your priority list if you want a six pack, but you don't want to say no to going out on a Friday night and getting boost. You know, there's got to be given take, you know that it's it is discipline. Everyone wants their cake and eat it too. Absolutely. So it's kind of like, it's interesting that you're in this business, if you will, I would say it's more like a culture of health and personal training and so forth, which is essentially helping people to optimise their fitness. You're fixing people, you're helping people to be fixed. Yes. And you have control over that. That's like business people come to you. It's a transaction and so forth. And you can maintain relative objectivity, meaning that you're not as much I know, you you always get involved in their life. But in now, when it comes to relationships, you're also a fixer. Yes. But I'm, I'm trying to learn not to be and in fact, I think I had a I had an instance just recently where someone sent me an article. Single alpha female.

Dr Katherine Iscoe:

Oh,

Nadine Amesz:

and basically,

Dr Katherine Iscoe:

whoa, tell me about this.

Nadine Amesz:

Yeah, so basically, insinuated that I had a too masculine energy, and I was too I guess domineering or my masculine energy was too overpowering.

Dr Katherine Iscoe:

We're in the year 2021. -Yes.- Wow. Okay, guys moving on.

Nadine Amesz:

Yes, but that was my reflection time that happened. just happened before New Year's before Christmas. And I kind of took a step back and went, Wow, like, Is this why my relationships are failing because I'm dominant, or because I've got my shit together. I know what I want. I know how I want to get it. Am I being too much of a fixer for that other person to bring them up to my level like, am I trying To get them there, am I trying too hard to bring them along with me? But let's go back to confidence versus dominance? Yep. Wouldn't you say? I find you very, very well, very competent, because you're on with me on the dance floor, even though everyone's watching and we're dancing like, we don't we live in the moment and enjoy it and so forth. Yes. Versus dominance is for me more of an aggressive thing, and demanding and demanding. So when it comes to this person, insinuating that you're dominant within the relationship, for me, to me, that's aggressive. Yes, by versus saying, The differentiating factor is, hey, you could be so amazing. Can you see it? Can you see how great we could be together? Yeah, but what's, where's the line between that saying, I think he like I know our potential. So come on, come on with abroad versus Listen, there's a potential here, you know, when when you're ready to jump on the horse? Well, it was interesting. I wasn't even in relationship wasn't even saying this person that sent me the article. Oh, yeah. Yeah. And that's, yeah, Wait a second. So you got to walk me through. How did this come up? What did he or she send it to you? I think we were reflecting on on relationships. And, and just having very open and frank conversations, and I basically said, you know, I've got my shit together, financially stable, emotionally stable. I know what I want 40 this year, and, and, you know, like, I want to settle. And and then the conversation continued. And I think the reflective piece for that person was you came across too strong, basically. And so yeah, it was just it was a really interesting without going down that rabbit hole. Yeah, rabbit hole that I went down after I got that article was like, wow, maybe my relationship from last year didn't work out. Because I was I had too high expectations. I was too dominant. I you know, I was the one doing all the all the stuff. And maybe I needed to be more softer, more go with the flow more feminine. Maybe I was just too much of a, I guess a dominant force within them. Yeah, but then that brings the idea that you have to change who you are to get into a relationship, and eventually, you're going to change back into your original core self. And the shits gonna hit the fan again. So again, circling back to I can't let go of my axe, do you think part of it is like that guilt of maybe I should have adapted myself a bit, maybe I should be a bit less dominant. And maybe it could have worked out? Or maybe it could be different? No, I actually think, dare I say it, I could have been more alpha female in my communication. I could have actually said, Actually, I'm not happy with that. I need more, I want more. Are you able to give more, or whatever it might be? But I think I think my reflective piece is that I just was like, Okay, okay, well, if that's how you are then now that I know that I can work with that type thing, as opposed to saying, actually, that's not enough for me. So you were the compromiser? You should be flexible. You? Well, that's where you're basically saying that will instead of saying, okay, that's how you are all adapt. Yeah, versus saying that's how you are, but this is how I am. So let's adapt together. Yeah. I mean, you know, Vlad and I are chalk and cheese. And it wouldn't work if I was the only one doing the adapting or not him. But I think also, my communication was probably not as direct as it should have been. Or why do you think that is? Because I, I don't know, maybe maybe because I felt like maybe I felt uncomfortable, to be bluntly, honest, or vulnerable, I guess. What's the worst thing that could happen? Exactly right. Yeah. Then it did happen. I ended the relationship. That was the worst thing that could have happened.

Dr Katherine Iscoe:

But take take me into that moment when you're about to say something honest to the person, would you say ility vulnerability but also a fear of the unknown of the rejection, rejection, end of the relationship? What am I going to do then? What are people going to think? You know, there's all these factors that come into decision making?

Nadine Amesz:

Definitely, it's like a risk assessment, a mini risk assessment every time But the difficulty is, is the decision maker is your emotions, not your not your logic. in general. I think illogically and I remember having these conversations, logically, if you put everything down on paper, you're like, I need to get the hell out. Yeah, but emotionally there was just something and that's almost the beauty of law. Is that you can't really explain to like, why do I love lotto? There's just so many things. But when you put them together, it's like this mess. Yeah. And you can't describe it. But it's interesting because part of my reflection over the last six 810 weeks has been, and especially after this article, my reflection is I, like, Oh, actually, let me take a step back. I definitely know that relationship made me so comfortable in who I was. And I didn't play any games. I was just, I felt so comfortable in being my entire me throughout that entire relationship. And I think that's the first relationship I've ever had where I could be like that. Wow. Yeah. And I yeah, I have done a lot of thinking recently. Yeah. Smoke isn't coming out of your head. Oh, it's like actually said to a girlfriend this morning. It was like, I had an epiphany over Christmas in New Year's. And I was like, oh, my goodness, mine. Again, was an again, the reflection on the alpha female, where my expectations too high. But wasn't that, you know, is that a reflection of me? Because I have very high expectations of myself. Was I, you know, portraying that or projecting that. But yeah, just and I'd go round and round around in circles, because I'm still trying to work out. Why when I was so in love, and in that wonderful relationship, why did it? Why did I feel like I needed to end it? I guess. Are you telling me that you regret your decision of it? Oh, God, honestly. Yes. In a word, yes. Yes. But I think that's been past experiences that I've reflected on, again, out of previous relationships. And, you know, like, I've even in my head written a list of what are all the things that you loved about it? And what are the things that were frustrating to you? And those frustrating things? If I take a step back? Were probably my own set of standards, I guess. Okay. Maybe values, also, your values definitely came into that. But again, my reflection is why did I communicate that clearer? or Why did I ask more questions about it to understand it? Did I feel comfortable in asking those questions, I guess. And I'm not too sure whether I'm not too sure whether we would have been on the same page to have that level of conversation

Dr Katherine Iscoe:

I was just about to say So essentially, correct me if I'm wrong, I can't get let go of my ex is perhaps inherent and messed up in there is I should have been more clear and confident in my communication. So the decision that was made was based on facts, not facts, not just 60% of the information, we would have had all the cards on the table, and then the decision that was made, I would feel a bit better about and

Nadine Amesz:

I think also that is that and I'm an analytical person.

Dr Katherine Iscoe:

Really no really?!

Nadine Amesz:

I analyse things a lot. And I think there's there was probably opportunity where I was analysing things. And I probably should have just said, Hey, give me the lowdown. Yeah, be as honest as you can be if you're comfortable in it, and give me the lowdown. And that's again, a reflection on my communication within the relationship. I've felt like I probably asked a lot of questions. But I perhaps wasn't brutally clear in the question. I guess I was probably trying to be nice about it or make it a comfortable conversation instead of a, an uncomfortable conversation, for lack of a better word.

Dr Katherine Iscoe:

Yeah. And I think a lot of people try to make, you know, they have this problem in their relationship, and they try to sugarcoat it to fix the problem. But you can't fix an uncomfortable problem with a comfortable conversation. So would you say from you know, this experience? Would you say one of the things that you would have learned is, you know, what, what's the worst thing that could happen? Put your hearts on the table and be confident in your communication? Because anything that result is going to be positive because you're basing it on all the information?

Nadine Amesz:

Yes. And the person reciprocate, like reciprocating that kind of all cards on the table situation.

Dr Katherine Iscoe:

That's it. Absolutely. Do you think that comes with age though? Because I know 20 years ago, I would have been like, I'm going to fake it through this relationship. I do not want to be single. Yeah, that was me.

Nadine Amesz:

Definitely. I think and the more you know yourself, like and also the more self Confidence you've got and the more self worth that you've got. It basically comes down to knowing what you bring to the table and unsure shit. I know what I bring to the table, and I'm happy to eat alone. I just don't want to. So, you know.

Dr Katherine Iscoe:

So when it comes to self worth, why don't we test this out a bit right now. And I'm going to ask you, is there a secret that you would like to share with us something that you've never told anyone before? So we can do what we did with this secret and unpack it and learn from it. Take your time. I mean, technically speaking, it could be one that I know because I know because, you know,

Nadine Amesz:

Well, I guess it's not really, it's not really a secret. But it's, it's part of my behavioural pattern from previous relationships. It was compromising and losing myself. So you will remember the relationship I had that I moved to Melbourne for. And I absolutely lost my centre, I gave everything to the relationship, whether it be financed blood, sweat, tears, emotion, I bent to make the relationship work, to the point that I even ate Chinese food on Friday night, because that is what he wanted. And instead of, you know, and, and it was just it, you know, like, I'm not - I hate Chinese food, just a disclaimer, and you know, but it's not for me, but I totally and utterly compromised on myself to have that relationship and make that relationship work. Again, it took me three and a half years to learn that it just wasn't going to work. Yeah, but it was my lack of wanting to fail. Sorry, it was my one not wanting to fail.

Dr Katherine Iscoe:

So what's it What's the secret in that?

Nadine Amesz:

It was the secret was I was I just was compromising my it's not really a secret. But it's something that I realised that I did a lot that I didn't want to do anymore. It's the compromising that you do to make something work because you don't want to be alone, or you don't want to be single or you don't want to go through heartache or more, you've invested so much. You have to start again. And it's that fear of starting again. But again, mum's words, what's the worst thing that could happen? you pack up and you move home, you move back to Perth, and you start again?

Dr Katherine Iscoe:

Which is what happened even now and I will I will tell the audience that with this particular person. At one point when they were in Perth, I'm only five foot five foot in bed if you really stretch me. Yeah, like if you got tall. Yeah, exactly. Really, really hang me up to dry. And I was very upset with this person. And I've only gotten really, I would say that kind of aggression a couple times in my life. And I remember feeling about seven foot tall and pointing my finger into his face and waves that finger you that finger and I said if you ever It was like every syllable of my word, if you ever do that to my best friend again. I was irate. I still remember that feeling.

Nadine Amesz:

I remember where we were standing at what house we were at. I remember it was June 2015. There you go. That was a major point.

Dr Katherine Iscoe:

And if we come back to your secret of Can I can I summarise it basically, you were being someone that you're not. Yeah. And would you say inherent to that is you're almost ashamed of that.

Nadine Amesz:

I look back and I I don't believe in having regrets. Because I believe everything I know it sounds super cliched, but you learn it's a lesson right? But I think that is why I where I am where I am today. I have my shit together. I know who I am. And I know what I bring to the table in a relationship. So I think I am not ashamed and I don't regret it. But I definitely learned I cannot compromise myself to that point ever again for somebody else.

Dr Katherine Iscoe:

So basically, we've already unpacked that secret and we've already you've already turned it into a lifelong lesson. Yes, this is because you're my girlfriend of course you're gonna be that Oh, wait, no, I'm joking. Well, you were in my life now. Obviously 10 years or I've spoken to you on many occasions there's been many to many walks, many laughs many, many lots of things. But I think also for the for the people listening sometimes you see this and other people and I think perhaps some of that when my finger was wagging is inherent to that. I was always saying you are changing my winning lottery girlfriend who is so amazing. And you are backing her up? Yeah. And I'm getting goosebumps just thinking about that. And for me it was like you are compromising my girlfriend. You are taking way, that angelic property of her Yeah, and you're taking her not away from me, that's not the point of this. You're you're taking her away from herself. Absolutely. And I know I've done that many times in relationships where you just, you know, maybe you party a lot, you don't party at all, and you pretend that you don't like to go out for a drink, or, you know, like, you're constantly changing yourself for the other people. And I have to admit, I mean, that's, again, one of my secrets as well. And I felt very ashamed of that. Because now you know, when you're older, not old, but older and competent. You just think why the fuck did I waste time? Yeah. Why should I waste time changing myself for someone else? Yeah. It makes no sense.

Nadine Amesz:

It doesn't does it? But it's not until you have that mature outlook, I think awareness. Absolutely.

Dr Katherine Iscoe:

That you can turn that shame into a lesson saying, You know what, I remember how I felt, When, when, for example, there was this, I'll say a short story. I remember this photographer in Toronto. And this is when I was like, super desperate to be with someone this net. And I remember we went up to cottage country. And he left early in the morning with everyone else there to go waterskiing in support. And I was left at this house alone. And I was calling him calling him calling, like calling him desperately. Because it was like, you just left me. Yeah. And he ignored all my phone calls. I still remember that feeling. And he just came back and said, Oh, yeah, sorry, we were just busy. And that that feeling of I cannot believe I'm putting myself in this compromising position. And I was one paying for gas to get up to the college country. It's three and a half hour drive. I was just one waiting there waiting. So I could drive him back to Toronto. And you feel like a numbness. And I think I was ashamed. I was so ashamed. And I know that that's a feeling I never want to replicate again. Yes, I don't want to be in that situation where I'm sitting there alone. And waiting for guffman. And waiting for someone to come home and say, Oh, I'm so sorry. I left my phone at home. I missed you so much. I wish you could have been there. That's what I wanted. Yes. Yeah. And that's what that's why I was sitting there, like a nun night waiting for someone to say, you know what, you're worth it. Yeah. That's what I was waiting for. Yeah. And that's, that's why I think if people can do more of what you do, which is learning from the past, and learning from their sequence, and say, I remember that feeling of shame, or I've heard that feeling of anger hurt. And I know that that's not good for me. And I don't want to do that again. Well, I can 150% say absolutely lost my spark in that relationship.

Nadine Amesz:

2015 Well, actually, it was the tail end of 2014 1516. I absolutely lost who I was, and I don't ever want to compromise myself in a relationship. And if that means I come across as masculine energy, then so fucking Be it because I do not want to lose my centre so much that I lost my Spark. I actually I remember talking to one of my best friends in Melbourne, saying, I feel like I'm a shadow. I feel like I'm my shadow self. I am Oh god. Yeah, it was it was a really peculiar feeling because I don't shy away. I've got a loud voice. I walked all I'm you know, like, I'm all in your face. Yeah. Over in Melbourne, I was an absolute shadow of myself, and I don't ever want to compromise in relationship to be like that again.

Dr Katherine Iscoe:

Wow, can we dive into that feeling of being a shadow a bit more? If you can take us into that moment can give us an example when perhaps you're at home, or you're waiting by the phone or you just had a fight or something like that? Yeah. Can you? Can you take us through what was going through your mind? Like, do you ever say to yourself, what am I doing? Or was it like, oh, if I can just get through this.

Nadine Amesz:

So my pattern with with actually a lot of things, I guess, is try to address it. So throughout that relationship, when I moved to Melbourne, I would probably every seven to eight weeks, have a conversation with this person and say, the relationship isn't working well enough. And we can be so much better, let's let's do things differently. Let's go on date night and put our phones away. Let's go out on a Saturday afternoon and go for a bike ride or a walk or take the dogs or do something as opposed to us sleeping on the couch and me sitting around waiting for you to wake up so we can do something together. And so I would constantly have this conversation, you know, and and there would be promises made Yes, we will do things better. Sometimes those conversations ended up being him telling me to back off back home. But again, compromising myself I was completely I was I was in love. Yeah. And I wanted it to work. And I'd invested so much into that relationship and moved to states. Yeah, I remember Yeah. I wanted To work so badly. But yeah, there were there were constant, constant moments. And again, I was living from hope to hope moments of fantastic relationship moments, grasping them and I remember actually speaking to you about it, and you telling me, it's like a monkey swinging between branches, you know, you're waiting for the next moment that you can grab on to. So you let go of that one. And then you forget everything in between in between. and then you hold on to that and you swing and you're outreaching for that branch of the next wonderful moment in the relationship, and you grab on to that, and you hold it with all your might. Those sorts of, you know, I went through that constantly. It's interesting, the relationship that we first started talking about was this sort of manic depressive moments, and it almost describes what you're what you're saying in regard to the relationship. It's Yes, feelings of elation, too.

Dr Katherine Iscoe:

Would you ever say that you ever felt depressed?

Nadine Amesz:

Depressed to me is quite a strong word. I like to think of it I guess more of I lost myself. And, and I will honestly say, five years ago. Through that, that relationship, I guess, all the issues. What I didn't realise what was happening was, I was getting isolated, it was isolating me from my friends and my family. And it really did impact the relationships I was having. Outside of this one person. He did that very, very well. So I remember having a dinner booked in with my best friend in Melbourne. And she made roast lamb and spent a lot of money on the prepare preparation and stuff. And it was Saturday. And that Saturday afternoon, he said to me, I don't really want to go, I can't be bothered. And I remember ringing her and saying we're not coming for dinner. And that basically put a massive splinter into our friendship. But I was so focused on the relationship succeeding. That it I mean, it hurt and I was very conscious of losing that friendship, the closeness Luckily, to say we are back at besties. And you know, we just we have an amazing relationship. Now she and I. But for that time that I was with him, it was a very isolating moment, I really lost a lot of friends and lost connections, I guess, with people that were important to me, because I couldn't see it happening at the time. I was just about to say sometimes when you're being emotionally manipulated, you just it's your new norm. Yep. And I think I'll make excuses to absolutely, yes, absolutely. And, and I have a, I'm ashamed of that. I'm ashamed of that moment. Because I will remember where we were when we when I made that phone call. Because that was very impacting it was it was huge. And I you know, I've apologised, and I still don't feel like it's probably something I don't ever want to get back to that point again, as well. So I think being aware of when there's emotional manipulation happening in relationship would you say then, like to summarise your secret almost. And what we've unpacked is, it's not even just compromise, but it's someone allowing someone to manipulate you to move you off kilter and compromise who you actually are. Yeah. Would you say that's like, almost like your fear in a way like I didn't I, if I put it into a statement, I never want to be manipulated, to be compromised again? Absolutely. Absolutely. And it definitely those 2/3 and a half year relationships. Absolutely. Gave me enough knowledge and learning and shitty times. To not want to ever repeat them. Absolutely.

Dr Katherine Iscoe:

So what would you be your I don't like saying advice. One of my things that my dad always says said to me is like, I don't want to give you advice, I just want to give you things to consider. Yeah. So you know, 123 things for perhaps someone who's listening who's in an emotionally volatile relationship, and that could be perhaps at work, you know, in their business in their relationships, friendships, family, whatever. What are some things perhaps that you can tell them to or maybe questions to ask themselves so they can consider something? I would

Nadine Amesz:

Definitely say they need to share it with someone who's close to them. Having an objective, external party, be a sounding board is very helpful. And I think sharing is part of the battle like when you internalise it, I think it can become overwhelming, so overwhelming. So to have someone that you can reach out and and vent. The other thing He's also making sure that that person knows or asks, Do you want a solution? Or do you just want me to listen? I think that's such an important thing for all relationships. If you're coming to someone with a problem, hold up. Do you want me to help help you try to solve it? Or do you want me to just listen? I think that's important, too, to understand where that relationship trust relationship lies in sharing whatever you're going through. How, what would I tell them that I need to consider? I would actually get them to take a step back and look at the bigger picture. Take a step back, get some perspective on things.

Dr Katherine Iscoe:

Look at your future self, would you say? Yeah, and

Nadine Amesz:

How do you want to? Do you want to be in this same position? two years, three years, five years down the track? And if your answer is no, then you need to start making a difference. You need to change you need to pivot. Absolutely. And that's hard. That's hard. When you're in it. Let me tell you, it is so hard. Because you're invested totally, it's kind of like people, it's the same thing that happens in gambling, you know, you're at the roulette table, and you have $10,000 in the bank, and you've spent 8000, you've lost 1000, you're like I've already 8000 in. Yeah, I might as well just blow the 10,000. But if you take a step back, you're like, but you could have $2,000 in your bank account walk away now. But our brains don't think that way. We just think we're in it to win it. So would you say again, that objective perspective says, Okay, let's take a step back and say, you know, yes, you've invested this, but how much more Are you willing to invest? It's so funny, you say that because my mind goes to all the, like, so many clients that you will have had that I have had that binge eat. Yep. And so yeah, they've they've just eaten a pack of the team time and pack element slice. And they're like, well, I've already done that, I might as well just go hell for leather, what the Hang on a second, take a step back and go, alright, I've just had a pack of the team's items and packing them in slice, take a step back, if I eat well, for the rest of the day, at least I finish eating well for the rest of the day. And and you can counteract sort of whatever the repercussions are going to be in your head or with your body. But I think that's also like binge eaters, you know, in present, they've ripped half the band aid off and think marketing might as well rip it all off and go hell for leather, you only live once type thing, because you have that mindset of I'm a failure. Yeah, I've just failed. And what what do people that feel like failures? Do they self punish? Yep, absolutely. And what research has concluded but not conclusively, I've never liked to say that, but it has repeatedly shown is those people that can be more self compassionate, fared better in regards to achievement. And that's kind of like what we're saying with relationship absolutely is, you know, the more self compassionate you can be, despite the situation that you're in, despite how much you have invested, you're still going to fare better. And, and coming back to that secret, I can't seem to let go of my ex. I think for people that are scared of challenging or being brutally honest with themselves, or hearing what they could do better or knowing what they could do better. They're the people that get stuck in in the cycle. Just like binge eating just like going back to an emotionally or in a physically abusive relationship. I think going back to that secret like it is, it's when you reflect and when you take a step back and see the perspective. Do you want to learn and grow and be better next time? Or are you comfortable in going back into that cycle, like and the challenge is to always step forward into that I want to learn I want to grow, I want to do better next time. That's right. And and it's learning YOLO it's not all about you only live once. It's not about you know, going hell for leather. It's about trying to learn learn from the experience. Yeah, being honest, honest with the evidence from the experience, but also honest with yourself. And yes, isn't that not moving away from that? You're You're grounding. And you said, you know, did you make a decision based on 60%? of, of fact, or could you have sat down and had that conversation and got 80 to 85? To 90%, of fact, and then made the decision? Well, yes, reflecting, you know, I want to ask more questions. I want to learn, I want to do better so that my next relationship will be better. I love that. And I think that's such a great place to end on in the sense that, let's ask not only the people around us more questions, but why don't we start asking ourselves a few more questions so we can we can extract a bit more honesty so we can have a more remarkable life.